Comments on: Back to Basics http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2004/03/08/back-to-basics/ WordPress, web development, and world domination. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:29:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4-alpha-19719 By: TechGnome http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2004/03/08/back-to-basics/#comment-430 TechGnome Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:42:39 +0000 //?p=#comment-430 I agree as well, a lower level language should be used for introduction, not one that has such an abstraction as Java. It's nice and all, but then the student doesn't get the benefit of WHY the abstration is so nice (ie, it hides all the nity grity details.) While going through technical training for the Air Force, one of the languages we had to learn was Assembler. While I have since long forgotten everything I learned, the basics of it stayed with me such that I now know how to code tighter to squeeze out a few extra instructions per second. It may not sound like much when we talk of the speeds of today's computers, but when dealing with potentially millions of records, every little bit helps. Learning several languages has certainly helped me to appreciate what my VB IDE does for me these days. I'd go nuts if I ever had to go bac to MFC. TG I agree as well, a lower level language should be used for introduction, not one that has such an abstraction as Java. It’s nice and all, but then the student doesn’t get the benefit of WHY the abstration is so nice (ie, it hides all the nity grity details.) While going through technical training for the Air Force, one of the languages we had to learn was Assembler. While I have since long forgotten everything I learned, the basics of it stayed with me such that I now know how to code tighter to squeeze out a few extra instructions per second. It may not sound like much when we talk of the speeds of today’s computers, but when dealing with potentially millions of records, every little bit helps.

Learning several languages has certainly helped me to appreciate what my VB IDE does for me these days. I’d go nuts if I ever had to go bac to MFC.

TG

]]> By: Suze http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2004/03/08/back-to-basics/#comment-429 Suze Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:28:28 +0000 //?p=#comment-429 Actually being the aforementioned "wife" in the post, I most strongly agree with the sentiment expressed here. While I was fortunate enough to have a great instructor, Java was to say the least, perplexing. I found the language completely unenjoyable, and think I would've been more enthusiastic if I understood more of the basics without jumping into "instantiating" my big toe from day one. Further, at the time when I took the course, there were very few "textbooks" on teaching Java, and IMHO, the Dietel & Dietel book for the course was awful! I learned more by going to Barnes & Noble and picking up the "Sam's Teach Yourself Java..." book. Actually being the aforementioned “wife” in the post, I most strongly agree with the sentiment expressed here. While I was fortunate enough to have a great instructor, Java was to say the least, perplexing. I found the language completely unenjoyable, and think I would’ve been more enthusiastic if I understood more of the basics without jumping into “instantiating” my big toe from day one. Further, at the time when I took the course, there were very few “textbooks” on teaching Java, and IMHO, the Dietel & Dietel book for the course was awful! I learned more by going to Barnes & Noble and picking up the “Sam’s Teach Yourself Java…” book.

]]> By: Dougal http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2004/03/08/back-to-basics/#comment-424 Dougal Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:57:21 +0000 //?p=#comment-424 I almost mentioned Python, but I must gotten distracted before I finished editing the post. I haven't had a chance to really dig into Python yet (even though I bought two of the first Python books to hit the market, several years ago), but from what I know, it <em>would</em> be a good learning language. Perl would also be moderately good. I say 'moderately' because a beginner could get confused by Perl's variable type indicators. For example, you refer to an array as a whole like <code>@myarray</code>, but you refer to individual elements like <code>$myarray[5]</code>. I almost mentioned Python, but I must gotten distracted before I finished editing the post. I haven’t had a chance to really dig into Python yet (even though I bought two of the first Python books to hit the market, several years ago), but from what I know, it would be a good learning language. Perl would also be moderately good. I say ‘moderately’ because a beginner could get confused by Perl’s variable type indicators. For example, you refer to an array as a whole like @myarray, but you refer to individual elements like $myarray[5].

]]> By: Simon Willison http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2004/03/08/back-to-basics/#comment-423 Simon Willison Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:34:47 +0000 //?p=#comment-423 I completely agree that Java is a poor language for beginner programmers. It's taught at my University and the number of people now in their second or even third year who are still terrified of writing actual code is pretty terrifying. In my opinion a big part of this is that they have only been taught Java, which has a very high barrier to acvtually doing useful things. I've never used Pascal but I've done a lor with Python and it seems to me to be an ideal first language - it has a nice learning curve and while it supports full OOP it's possible to start being productive with it without even knowing what an object is. I completely agree that Java is a poor language for beginner programmers. It’s taught at my University and the number of people now in their second or even third year who are still terrified of writing actual code is pretty terrifying. In my opinion a big part of this is that they have only been taught Java, which has a very high barrier to acvtually doing useful things.

I’ve never used Pascal but I’ve done a lor with Python and it seems to me to be an ideal first language – it has a nice learning curve and while it supports full OOP it’s possible to start being productive with it without even knowing what an object is.

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