Comments on: Old wine in a new bottle http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle Random musings of a Southern geek Wed, 08 Oct 2008 02:36:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Reign http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-159229 Reign Thu, 27 Sep 2007 02:09:51 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-159229 I'm new to this AJAX thing and slowly learning everything about it, and I'm glad that you guys, a discussion like this are a great help to me. Thank you. I’m new to this AJAX thing and slowly learning everything about it, and I’m glad that you guys, a discussion like this are a great help to me. Thank you.

]]> By: Iwo http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-157017 Iwo Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:52:17 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-157017 Good point, its been around for some time but now the web environment is able to support remote scripting much better. Good point, its been around for some time but now the web environment is able to support remote scripting much better.

]]> By: Dougal http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-19887 Dougal Tue, 24 May 2005 13:08:07 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-19887 Ajax's affect on search engine indexing will depend entirely on how you use it. If your pages are designed to still function normally without Ajax, then it shouldn't affect the indexing. If you design your pages such that they can only be used with Javascript enabled, then it could prevent search engines from seeing some of your content (depending on exactly what you're using Ajax <em>for</em>. Ajax’s affect on search engine indexing will depend entirely on how you use it. If your pages are designed to still function normally without Ajax, then it shouldn’t affect the indexing. If you design your pages such that they can only be used with Javascript enabled, then it could prevent search engines from seeing some of your content (depending on exactly what you’re using Ajax for.

]]> By: Bald Eagle http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-19847 Bald Eagle Mon, 23 May 2005 23:12:39 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-19847 The “right place, right time” factor is were it’s at I think. The same holds true for cascading style sheets. Now you can design/develop entirely in CCS and forget about tables. In IE that is. Unfortunately, Firefox is gaining market share, but the current version has its flaws when it comes to supporting CSS. I am wondering: how does using AJAX influence a web page’s ability to get indexed by search engines? The “right place, right time” factor is were it’s at I think. The same holds true for cascading style sheets. Now you can design/develop entirely in CCS and forget about tables. In IE that is. Unfortunately, Firefox is gaining market share, but the current version has its flaws when it comes to supporting CSS.

I am wondering: how does using AJAX influence a web page’s ability to get indexed by search engines?

]]> By: jbot http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-19680 jbot Thu, 19 May 2005 15:46:15 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-19680 @Kevin Clary: Let's face it, Adaptive Path are just bandwaggoning. They hope to get more business, sell more seminars, from this, because they hope by attaching a new name to an old technology they'll get all the plaudits and more revenue. It's a con. They've invented nothing, but hike up their own plublicity. @Kevin Clary:

Let’s face it, Adaptive Path are just bandwaggoning. They hope to get more business, sell more seminars, from this, because they hope by attaching a new name to an old technology they’ll get all the plaudits and more revenue. It’s a con. They’ve invented nothing, but hike up their own plublicity.

]]> By: Kevin Clary http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10751 Kevin Clary Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:16:30 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10751 Why is Ajax hot now? One word, Google. Why is Ajax hot now? One word, Google.

]]> By: Dougal http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10737 Dougal Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:56:16 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10737 Bill S.: I don't see anything in the original article that states in black-and-white that there is a real distinction between Ajax and Remote Scripting. It <em>does</em> specifically mention XMLHttpRequest as a key component, though. So, technically, you could exclude non-XHR methods from the Ajax umbrella, if you want to be pedantic. However, I think you'll find that however specific some people might want to be, the term "Ajax" is going to encompass a more generic range, as I've outlined here. At a high level, there is little difference between using IFRAME-based communication or XHR. It's an implementation detail. Developers are going to freely attach the Ajax moniker to these similar techniques just as a matter of convenience. It's kind of like the whole "hacker vs cracker" debate. Many people spend a lot of energy trying to educate the world on the distinction. But the world doesn't give a flip. Even I've given up on that one. I use the word "hacker" for both cases, and let context define the distinction, and when necessary, I explain the difference to my audience. Bill S.: I don’t see anything in the original article that states in black-and-white that there is a real distinction between Ajax and Remote Scripting. It does specifically mention XMLHttpRequest as a key component, though. So, technically, you could exclude non-XHR methods from the Ajax umbrella, if you want to be pedantic.

However, I think you’ll find that however specific some people might want to be, the term “Ajax” is going to encompass a more generic range, as I’ve outlined here. At a high level, there is little difference between using IFRAME-based communication or XHR. It’s an implementation detail. Developers are going to freely attach the Ajax moniker to these similar techniques just as a matter of convenience.

It’s kind of like the whole “hacker vs cracker” debate. Many people spend a lot of energy trying to educate the world on the distinction. But the world doesn’t give a flip. Even I’ve given up on that one. I use the word “hacker” for both cases, and let context define the distinction, and when necessary, I explain the difference to my audience.

]]> By: Ronaldo http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10736 Ronaldo Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:10:27 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10736 I coming to agree with the "right time, right place" theory, adding also a "right name" to it. Like Brent, I've been using it for years already and was surprised to see it get so much press recently. What worries about the whole thing is how it will affect accessibility and the proper use of standards. That's a lot harder to do in an Ajax context and people will tend to worry less about it since, in some cases, may mean double the work. I coming to agree with the “right time, right place” theory, adding also a “right name” to it. Like Brent, I’ve been using it for years already and was surprised to see it get so much press recently.

What worries about the whole thing is how it will affect accessibility and the proper use of standards. That’s a lot harder to do in an Ajax context and people will tend to worry less about it since, in some cases, may mean double the work.

]]> By: Bill S. http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10735 Bill S. Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:08:05 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10735 One correction. You say that Ajax is Remote Scripting OR XMLHttpRequest. The article that coined the name states that is not either OR but it is XMLHttpRequest and NOT remote scripting. There is a big difference. Remote scripting requests through HTTPRequest for a standard HTML GET and then usually copies the results to some innerHTML elsewhere on the page. With XMLHttpRequest you get data back and manipulate it on the client. The data could be XML or Javascript or HTML but it is extremely fast. We have been using remote scripting for a few years. Once converting over to XMLHttpRequest we are seeing 10-50 time speed improvements. The key is the concept of micro-requests and not page requests. Sure some people have done it before, but classifying and naming an approach is a key to wide spread adoption. Adoption of this opens up the door for fine-grained events performed Asynchronously. See http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php And http://jpspan.sourceforge.net/wiki/doku.php?id=javascript:xmlhttprequest One correction. You say that Ajax is Remote Scripting OR XMLHttpRequest. The article that coined the name states that is not either OR but it is XMLHttpRequest and NOT remote scripting. There is a big difference. Remote scripting requests through HTTPRequest for a standard HTML GET and then usually copies the results to some innerHTML elsewhere on the page. With XMLHttpRequest you get data back and manipulate it on the client. The data could be XML or Javascript or HTML but it is extremely fast.

We have been using remote scripting for a few years. Once converting over to XMLHttpRequest we are seeing 10-50 time speed improvements.

The key is the concept of micro-requests and not page requests. Sure some people have done it before, but classifying and naming an approach is a key to wide spread adoption.

Adoption of this opens up the door for fine-grained events performed Asynchronously.

See
http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php

And
http://jpspan.sourceforge.net/wiki/doku.php?id=javascript:xmlhttprequest

]]> By: Mike P. http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10734 Mike P. Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:48:49 +0000 http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2005/03/24/old-wine-in-a-new-bottle#comment-10734 I have a <a href="http://www.fiftyfoureleven.com/weblog/marketing/ajax-from-a-different-pov" rel="nofollow">theory why it happened</a>, or maybe that's just a name for it ;-) Gotta say your name would'a been more catchy... I have a theory why it happened, or maybe that’s just a name for it ;-)

Gotta say your name would’a been more catchy…

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