31 Comments

  1. Ken Pyle viodi.tv
    Posted September 22, 2007 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Great explanation! Thanks.

  2. Jens Brogaard brogaard.info
    Posted September 22, 2007 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    … but has WordPress ever implemented true categories?

    You state that “it’s a matter of how you choose to use the underlying system”. I very much disagree ;) Categories are defined, as you very correctly explain, by a hierarchy. If there’s no hierarchy it’s “just” tags (or keywords). My question is then, how do you make a hierarchy with WP cats? You can’t, therefore they’re actually tags and therefore I don’t see the big difference between the new tags in rel. 2.3 and the categories.
    Yes, you might in the future choose to treat the tags as, well tags, and the categories as a second semantic structure in the sense of keywords. But a hierarchic (category) structure, no.
    Please enlighten me if there’s something I’ve completely missed.

  3. Geof F. Morris gfmorris.net
    Posted September 22, 2007 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    I’m terribly excited for it. Of course, I likely won’t have time to mess with it. :sigh:

  4. Snakefoot smallvoid.com
    Posted September 23, 2007 at 4:14 am | Permalink

    I’m using WP categories as a hierarchy, so not sure how to respond to “true categories”.

    Sadly enough WP 2.3 looses some functionality with hierarchic category structure, as it will not allow two sub-categories with the same name. This is a blocker for my site which uses wordpress as a CMS.

  5. Posted September 23, 2007 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    @Jens Brogaard

    You can make hierarchical categories with WP. Go to Admin > Manage > Categories. When you create a new category you can assign it to a parent category. There you have the beginnings of a tree structure.

    In sidebar.php how you code wp_list_categories() will determine if sub-categories are indented, displayed or not. The default is to display sub-categories. Play with parameters ‘hierarchical’ and ‘child_of’.

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Template_Tags/wp_list_categories

    Hope this helps.

  6. Ozh planetozh.com
    Posted September 23, 2007 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Tags are really something I don’t understand why it went core. Seems to me that everybody feeling the need to use them was happy with plugins like UTW. And seems to me that a big majority was simply not using them.

  7. Paul pauljohns.com
    Posted September 23, 2007 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Nice explanation. I’m really looking forward to built-in tag support in WP 2.3. I like to have as few plug-ins as possible running in my WP installation.

  8. Jens Brogaard brogaard.info
    Posted September 23, 2007 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    FurrTrap, you hit the nail on the head – thank you very much for the clarification.
    But… with the possibility of “tagging” one post to multiple categories it works (also) as a tag system (if you don’t make use of hierarchies). A true hierarchical system wouldn’t allow files/posts to be put in multiple folder/categories.

    The existent WP categories I would therefore coin ‘tag categories’ which are great to use for grouping tags since they tend to bloat. Without any apparent advantages I would take care of using the new tags especially considering there is no global tag list (for managing)…

  9. Posted September 23, 2007 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    @Jens Brogaard & Ozh

    I guess we all have different points of view regarding the meaning of tag and category. But I think our overall aim is to make a WP weblog as informative as we can, by using tags and/or categories in a way that assists the reader to find what they want quickly.

    For me, I’m using categories as a thematic index, a broad stroke. When I start to use tags, it will be to provide much finer granularity, a more detailed index of article content that will probably span multiple categories.

    Well that’s the idea and I haven’t really looked at UTW yet, it’s supposed to offer strong tag management.

    One way or another, I’ll definitely use tags and categories together with the intention of making things as easy to find as possible.

    I think WP is a powerful and flexible system, especially with all the plugin authors about. So hopefully, it should satisfy all our diverse needs :)

  10. Les lessharma.com
    Posted September 23, 2007 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Great post, looking forward to the new Wordpress 2.3

  11. John Money talkgold.com
    Posted September 23, 2007 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Great addition. Tags will help me organize things a heck of a lot better at my blog.

    John

  12. Darran limetouch.com
    Posted September 23, 2007 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    At the moment I am using categories with tags and it is really helping in users find my site easily on search engines. However I have 1 question with tags.

    What is the final variation of it?
    For e.g. I can have studies, study or studying. All of which mean the same thing, what is the kind of naming convention of tags which users look at? Is there any fixed one? Or which naming convention would you use in this case?

    Hope I can get some help here.

  13. Widgett Walls needcoffee.com
    Posted September 24, 2007 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Running a pop culture website, we’re using categories as a broad stroke like DVD and Television and Reviews. Tags we use for things that can move across categories: for example, we have a bunch of posts that involve Vincent Price (as every site should). It doesn’t make sense to have a “Vincent Price” category, however, so we have a vincent-price tag. If you want to see all the posts with that tag, you can got to tag/vincent-price/ and be a happy camper.

    I’ve been very pleased with UTW but I agree that the less plugins the better, at least in my setup. I’m looking forward to playing with conversion to the built-in tags. I hope it doesn’t sting too much.

  14. Adam pomomusings.com
    Posted September 24, 2007 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    My question is why I want to use this vs. Ultimate Tag Warrior – which I have configured perfectly on my site.

    I’ve tagged hundreds of posts using that — will I lose all of those tags if I try to switch to the new tagging system? And will these tags help me SEO like Technorati tags do?

  15. Katalog Stron steg.pl
    Posted September 25, 2007 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Hope I can get some help here.

  16. Waydomatic waydechristie.myopenid.com
    Posted September 25, 2007 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Thanks Dougal – this cleared a few things up for me.

    I’m still a bit fuzzy on a couple of things though…

    1. How do tags benefit *users*? Is it just another way for them to navigate a site?
    2. Is there any benefit for the *publisher* such as SEO? Does Technorati index tags for example?

    Cheers.

  17. Dougal dougal.gunters.org
    Posted September 26, 2007 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    Waydomatic:

    Tags benefit users by offering better in-site search options. In addition to providing more terms on which to search, the new tag API allows you to do ‘AND’ and ‘OR’ searches.

    And yes, there are SEO benefits, because the tags are indexed by Technorati and other services which can understand rel="tag" attributes. WordPress also puts reltag on categories, but again, we’re adding more keyword richness into the mix.

    I imagine that we’ll also start seeing more plugins which will allow you to mashup your own post tags with tags from other services. So you might be able to automagically insert photos from your Flickr photo stream with matching tags, or provide a list of related web pages from your Delicious tags or from a Technorati search.

  18. John H. Gohde blog.naturalhealthperspective.com
    Posted September 27, 2007 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Personally, I prefer the hierarchical category structure. Perhaps, it is just how my theme is set up? But, I simply select only one category per post and the post is automatically included in all the categories above it.

    Tags as used in deli.cio.us are just single word keywords. Doesn’t work out very well at all, IMHO. Doesn’t work well, as in I sure do waste a heck of a lot of time mucking about with tags. Using multiple word tags and bundles, helps somewhat.

    The problem with categories is that most bloggers are totally lacking in design skills.

  19. U! uczelnie.org
    Posted September 30, 2007 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    THX for explanation. Big number of category terms and tags can looks messy, but built-in tag systems in Wordpress 2.3 is significant and the most wanted feature.

  20. Roma romadascoprire.com
    Posted October 4, 2007 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Anyone know if the tags provided by plugins like Ultimate Tag Warrior are compatible with Wordpress 2.3 ?

  21. Fernstudium fern-studiengang.de
    Posted October 9, 2007 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    somebody knew the plugin for the tag cloud?

    regards paul

  22. mlankton aventhusiast.com
    Posted October 10, 2007 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    I’m afraid to upgrade. I can’t remember which style sheets and php files outside my theme I’ve altered. :)

  23. Amaury herewithme.fr
    Posted October 16, 2007 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    If you search a plugin as like UTW for WordPress 2.3

    Use Simple Tags !
    http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/simple-tags/

    Autocompletion, mass edit, etc.

  24. Posted October 28, 2007 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    I’m thinking about switching from categories to tags – however I do have some concern that I’m going to produce hell of duplicated content and the searchengines will kick me out of the index. Does anyone have experience with this issue? Thx, Andi

  25. Posted October 31, 2007 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    I noticed Snakefoot’s response above a reference to 2.3 no longer allowing two subcategories with the same name. So if one has parent categories, say “Business” and “Fashion”, and within each of those has the subcategories of “writers”, “events” and “news”, does that mean 1/2 of these subcategories need to be renamed? This would seem a rather odd step backward for those heavily relient on categories in their cms. Can someone confirm this?

  26. stars tut5.de
    Posted November 7, 2007 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Mhh I’d like to start using tags to get listed in technorati but I’m hesitant because I think I might get hit with duplicate content penalties by Google …

  27. meik handyblog.blogg.de
    Posted December 5, 2007 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    wow i didnt even notice there’s tags in wordpress 2.3

  28. tommy sticksoffire.com
    Posted December 14, 2007 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    I need HELP!! Pardon me, but you have written down my thoughts exactly.

    “A while back, I started using my categories as tags. I create new categories on the fly, as seems fit. But I’ve gradually started to regret that decision. What I really wanted was to have both a category to specify the overall main theme for each post, and a set of tags to aid in searching.”

    So, when I first started using tags, I used UTW to turn the categories into tags. However, now my edit post screen STILL includes upwards of 70 categories. I never deleted them, just in case. Since WP23 now supports tags, there is no need for UTW, and I feel more confident that I don’t need as many categories… Care to give me all the steps I should take to not lose any tags while completing this transition? I plan to delete sub-subcategories, and use categories as a GENERAL category (as I believe is intended).

  29. Andi arzt-preisvergleich.de
    Posted January 12, 2008 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Coming back to my post from Oct28th. Does anyone have experience reagrdsing duplicated content? Thx

  30. Marty southerncommunityguide.com
    Posted June 24, 2008 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    @Andi- just ‘nofollow’ the tag links any anything else you don’t want the search engines to follow. Then don’t worry about the penalty. :D

  31. Posted August 6, 2008 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    Snakefoot and Owen hit the nail on the head for me.

    WordPress is now at 2.6, and this is still broken.

    You cannot create a real hierarchy with categories, because it doesn’t take into consideration the parent.

    ie.

    /local/news/
    /international/news/

    This is not possible. Unless I’m missing something?

19 Trackbacks

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